This situation must be confusing for a lot of people. I'm involved and it's even confusing for me. I will be attempting to tell my experience as neutrally as possible. Disclaimer that these are the events as I remember them, and dates may not be accurate. Furthermore, this document is not exhaustive and may be missing information. All I ask is that you consider the facts for yourself and make up your own mind.
My perspective on the situation begins July 8, 2023. This document last updated October 12, 2023.
CW: discussion of paraphilias (mostly minor attraction) and contact discourse
CC: CreativeClash, an art gifting game. Operates on a discord server and website (xcreativeclashx.net) Aethy: Aethy.com, a mastodon instance DreamWidth: Blogging website DreamWidth.org Squidge: Offers a variety of services but the relevant service is "fandom" image hosting Para Pride: A way for paraphiles to celebrate their continued existence in a world that doesn't understand them at best and wants them dead at worst. May be conveyed with flags and symbols, talking in positive terms about their experience, or posting fantasies. MAP: Minor Attracted Person. Someone who experiences sexual and/or romantic attraction to people under the age of consent. Pro-contact (pro-c): those who believe that people under the age of consent ARE able to give informed consent to romantic/sexual contact with adults (specifics of the belief vary from person to person) Anti-contact (anti-c): those who believe that people under the age of consent ARE NOT able to give informed consent to romantic/sexual contact with adults (specifics of the belief vary from person to person) Contact Discourse: Arguing the ethics of a pro-c vs anti-c stance. A very complex mostly intracommunity topic that outsiders don't have a very nuanced view on.
You don't have to agree with a contact stance, but by these definitions neither side thinks they're abusing anyone. Also, keep in mind "minor" is an enormous age range from newborn to somewhere between 14-18. This nuance is completely flattened in a simplistic "pro-c vs anti-c" argument.
Further reading: https://map-wiki.com/index
https://aethy.com/@staff/ The initial post appears to have been deleted, and I didn't screenshot it. Oh well.
This post, especially the word choice, is the initial thing that alarmed me:
“positive discussions and iconography toward [harmful paraphilic disorders] will result in its removal and potential suspension. This includes the use of labels, flags, symbols etc. to promote paraphilic disorders such as minor attraction, zoophilia, and any attraction which violates the rules of consent.”
“Positive discussions” implies to me that paraphiles must bemoan or feel ashamed of their attractions to talk about them. The banning of “labels, flags, symbols etc” also alarms me, as I contest that such things can be used to “promote” paraphilias. “Paraphilic disorder” may or may not be the clinical term to refer to such paraphilias as minor attraction, zoophilia, necrophilia, etc., but I don't like it as it feels dehumanizing and pathologizing.
When I made a couple posts expressing concern over the policy and what it means, I was told (condescendingly imo) that I would be able to discuss and contribute to policy changes if I joined the Aethy matrix space. I did so. I have found this space to be a consistently hostile environment until I left (9/27). Vaguing is forbidden, yet there have been discussions of people who were not there to defend themselves. I myself was the topic of conversation recently after the September 18 staff post, and would not have been able to defend myself had I not checked in. Anyway. I attempted to explain why the rule felt unfair and alienating. I was met by resistance and hostility from several community members until mod S stepped in to oversee the discussion. Several members said they found para pride inherently suspicious, which I was offended by, and were not questioned about their assumptions the way those who found it not suspicious were. After discussing until I was exhausted, I left. When I checked back, the admin of aethy (henceforth referred to as "the Admin") had stepped in to workshop a rewrite. My main sticking point, “positive discussions,” had been left unchanged, despite this wording having been pointed out by other users. I was tagged by mod H to give feedback, but I felt discouraged and unheard, so I did not weigh in.
Somewhere in all this, contact discourse became heavily the topic. I do not like thinking about contact discourse, the topic makes me uncomfortable. I also believe it is an intracommunity debate (MAP community and possibly Zoo community, I am unsure) and I am not informed enough to weigh in. However there is extreme pressure to identify as anti-contact, despite this term rarely being defined by those who demand it, while not having an opinion or being neutral is equated to being pro-contact. I know no one enforcing this has any idea what these terms mean within the MAP community, as during this discussion they had to be educated on the definition of “contact.” “Contact” refers to sexual or romantic contact, and the Admin and the matrix mods thought it meant any contact, even nonsexual talking or touching. I do not believe people this uninformed are suited to police anyone's ideologies on the subject.
One thing to note: the Admin says "we" in the staff posts, but the Admin is the one and only mod/admin of Aethy.com. I feel that there is not proper transparency here and it makes me uncomfortable for reasons I can't explain. The Admin is able to hide personal decisions behind anonymity and assumed other people, while complaining in private (matrix discourse channel) that people don't respect them as a person. I think if you want to act like an anonymous corporate entity, it only makes sense that people treat you like one.
(this post also appears to have been deleted)
On its face, the reword is more acceptable to me. However, I saw how some of the community and the Admin responded to criticism, so I felt disillusioned and afraid. One particular incident stands out. One user was trying to advocate for their friends, as if their friends were pushed out of Aethy they would have no choice but to join “pro-contact” spaces or face social isolation. the Admin responded on the staff account extremely unkindly, accusing them of expecting a CSA victim to hang out with abusers. This user was later vented about in the discourse channel, a clear violation of the no vagueing policy in my opinion.
Feeling insecure about the state of Aethy, I decided to use my old baraag account instead (created 2020). I had seen the hostility with which the Admin had responded to site users concerned about their friends and trying to ask good faith questions, who had words put in their mouths and were subsequently banned. I will never forget this. I knew it was only a matter of time until I had an ideological disagreement with the Admin that was important enough for me to speak up, and I feared I would be similarly treated. I didn't know how right I was.
I may have made one or two additional posts to Aethy at this time, but since then every post I have ever made has been to Baraag. the Admin is policing and punishing me for offsite content that was never hosted by Aethy in the first place.
Staff Post (link to screenshot)
This is neither here nor there but I do agree with the Admin on this one. There's nothing wrong with non-sexual nudity and I believe it's right to normalize it. This is an example to me that bad people can have good ideas lol.
The image in question is in fact so offensive that I have been banned from two additonal sites just for showing it. So I won't. Instead I will describe it. Basically, it is a cute bunny colored like the MAP and YAP flag (shades of purple, pink, blue, yellow, and white). It is decorated with symbols representing minor attraction (childlove) to young people of different genders: boy, girl, nonbinary, and children in general. This was not obfuscated in any way; I made this explicit in my post, which was intended to spread positivity for those who experience minor attraction. I had become annoyed with the hate and negativity directed at those who experience marginalized paraphilias (MAPs, Zoophiles and Necrophiles are commonly cited as the “Big 3” online) and wanted to spread some positivity. It was becoming a bit of a trend in the CreativeClash (CC) server to design “Plushie Dreadfuls” by members for themselves or their characters. This is the reasoning behind the cute plushies from the website:
“So why do we tackle these issues in the first place? What's the motivation?
Our plushes are meant to be tools and guides that help people in their experience with the issues contained in their themes.
I, American McGee, believe in facing your fears and using the difficulties of life as catalysts for positive transformation and personal growth. Instead of running away from the things we fear, we should run towards them and embrace them. Instead of hiding our issues and stigmatizing them, we should drag them out into the light and expose them for all to see. In this way, we rob them of the power to control us.
I believe this because it's core to my own experiences in dealing personally with issues related to childhood trauma, mental health, tragic loss, and other encounters with chaos. And I work through Crowd Design with our audience in the hopes that our processes and products can help others to transform their issues into more desirable outcomes.&
And you can see this general theme contained in the games, books, toys, and other products that I've created over the years.”
I agree and believe all aspects of ourselves must be embraced and brought into the light, even (and especially) those that others hate. This was my motivation for creating the MAP Bunny. I mentioned I would be posting the finished design to my Baraag account in the server, but never posted the design itself in the server to respect the server rules not to discuss paraphilias, which I was fully aware of. Once again, I am being punished and policed for offsite content.
I was immediately banned from one of my servers (which I had joined through CC) with no explanation. The next day (9/18) I was called into a ticket in the discord server with the admin of CC, who (I felt) interrogated me about my contact stance. I don't believe living beings should be abused, and I'm offended every time I'm forced to say that to justify myself. I believe it's dehumanizing to be forced to have to insist I'm a "good person" over and over, or else be labeled as an abuser. I was told the symbols were “pro-contact” and required to remove the post from my baraag account and not to use them in the future or I would be banned from the community. Would you like to know what I believe? By doing my own observations of public sections of the MAP community since 2020, and now by talking with a MAP activist contact who has been working directly with the community since 2017, I have determined that these symbols merely represent minor attraction and nothing else. There is no contact stance associated with these symbols. They do not "promote" minor attraction in any way. They are simply used by MAPs to identify themselves.
I chose to comply with CC's demands rather than be banned. This conversation lasted two days (9/18-9/19) during which I answered the questions I was asked and agreed to comply with their terms, which were to remove the initial post and to not use the symbols again in the future. I was told I would be allowed to stay in the community as long as I complied. I was unsatisfied that I was being policed for offsite behavior and having my art censored, but it was worth it for me to stay in the community. Despite saying I would not be banned, the next day (9/20) I was banned anyway. However, I did not realize I had been banned. All I knew was that I was no longer in the CC discord server. I had no idea what was going on and started to panic. This was extremely triggering after my unexpected ban from the other server just three days before. There was no further communication to me on discord, so I was left panicking and spiraling because I had no idea what was going on. My heartrate was up to 130 bpm from the stress. I attempted to contact the CC admin on discord to inquire,but was unable to either because I was blocked or we don't share a server. I asked a mod I knew, B, but they did not respond.
I was in this state until two days later (9/22), when I discovered I had been sent an email with the reasons for my ban. I had not done anything wrong, but other users expressed discomfort over my presence so I was removed. It's hard for me to understand the reasons, even though they wrote a lot. Screenshot of the email. As of writing (9/29) there is no further update on the CC situation. Waiting to see what happens when CC comes back from hiatus lol.
Staff post (link to screenshot)
Now we get into the current situation. During this week, I realized people might be talking about me in the Aethy matrix. They indeed were. There was a discussion about the recent staff post and what caused it. To be fair the person talking about me was defending me, they were sure I didn't know the true meaning of the symbols. I popped in. the Admin assured me I wasn't the one causing this (uh huh). I made an attempt to defend the symbols as universal to all MAPs, and not indicative of contact stance. the Admin told me they had been used to trade CSAM and traffick children before the internet. This sounded very serious to me. I asked for sources. I was told sources were difficult to secure because this happened before the internet, and sent this pdf and this snopes article.
I decided this was enough discussion and disengaged. Then I read the documents. To me, these prove nothing more than they are in fact symbols used by MAPs to self-identify. That one was found in a CSAM seizure is correlation, which does not prove causation. Based on this evidence we cannot know that the symbol was involved in the trading of the CSAM. Second, why should I trust what they FBI says after everything they've done? Whatever happened to ACAB? I decided not to argue my case as I felt it was a lost cause. I decided to move on and continue posting on my baraag as usual. I thought everything had wrapped up.
Regarding the staff post itself, I frankly can't believe anything the Admin has to say. They claim to have done "research" but they have not talked to anyone in the MAP community, and their sources are underwhelming at best. As far as "hate symbols" goes? I have never seen evidence to support this. There were claims in the matrix that Aethy's host said this, but I would need to see screenshots to believe it. "pics or it didn't happen" as the adage goes.
A “concerned” party messaged my best friend, telling her I was in danger of isolating and hurting myself. This person is formerly mentioned in this account as mod H. My friend was also contacted by person R, but was not as close to them so she didn't really respond. My friend became very upset by the hours of conversation with H and messaged me in a heightened emotional state, concerned for my safety. I was upset because I didn't recognize what she was saying about me. It didn't sound like me at all. I asked and she told me who had contacted her. I decided to return to the Aethy matrix to explain myself to these people.
As of 9/29 I have now seen the messages, and I can attest to the extreme level of manipulation and straight up lying by H. H only said two true things in the entire conversation, the rest was mostly or completely fabricated. They claimed to have had discussions with me that never happened and that I said things to them I never said. H attempted to manipulate my friend into reducing or cutting contact with me, while offering themself and their friend R as replacements. I believe this is a dangerous, highly manipulative individual, but I will avoid naming them for now unless I think they pose a significant danger to others. (9/30 update) R is becoming worrisome to me as they are spreading imo dangerous misinformation based on being a psychology student. I will not name them but you may know to whom I refer.
Not knowing the best way to approach R and H, or what they had even said to my friend, I posted in the para discourse thread of the Aethy Matrix discourse channel that I was willing to explain my side if it would help. I know how these symbols are used, since I have been passively observing parts of the MAP community on fediverse basically ever since I created my baraag account (2020). I have seen them used by all MAPs, regardless of contact stance. Furthermore, my observations are backed up by a MAP activist friend who has been working with the community for years. I linked https://map-wiki.com/index.
In response I was asked by R where I had seen these symbols used, and why I considered the wiki a reliable source since it didn't have scientific backing. I knew this was a lost cause since I had been observing NNIA.space. the Admin&co consider it to be pro-c since it allows pro-c individuals, however it is intended as a space for ALL marginalized identities (nnia stands for non-normative identities alliance), strictly forbids abuse of any kind, and does not allow pro-cs to argue their case on the site. Pro-c MAPs on other instances consider NNIA an anti-c instance because the userbase is predominantly anti-c MAPs and has an anti-c bias. Furthermore, my activist friend has informed me that pro-c MAPs almost universally hate the admin. I cannot defend any of his other behavior (grooming allegations), but he is not pro-c. There may be some confusion because he is from a country where the AOC is 16 and he abides by that. This does not make him pro-c.
Discussion of pro-c vs anti-c arguments is allowed on the associated matrix space, but I haven't been there and neither have you, so I can't say what goes on there. Furthermore, I contend that “sharing spaces” or befriending bad people does not make you bad. I point to Daryl Davis, who reached out to and befriended KKK members, convincing 200 members to abandon their racist beliefs. Would you choose to condemn him for his actions? https://www.goalcast.com/
As to the wiki not being reliable, I don't see why a *community* wiki needs scientific sources to be reliable. Does Urban Dictionary have scientific sources? No, because it's based on experiential use. Same for the MAP wiki.
I was having difficulty in this conversation because there were three people simultaneously arguing against me unmediated, two of which were matrix mods (Person H, R, and F) which caused a bit of confusion on both sides. When I questioned the FBI document, person F claimed “there weren't any cases where this [MAP symbols] appeared where the person didn't have some connection to CSAM or was an abuser.” I asked to know what the cases were. I was told they were in the document, and I “know” they're in the document. Reader, they were not in the document. The cases in the document are (1) instance of the boylover symbol being found during a CSAM investigation (2) the symbol being found stamped onto a coin, no mention of CSAM or abuse. In response they told me “tbh, since it's an FBI doc, they're not going to compile every case into that, because agents would have access to the other relevant case files.” This frankly contradicts their initial statement that “there weren't any cases … where the person didn't have some connection to CSAM or was an abuser.” The document doesn't state this or have any evidence to support this. Meanwhile I got into a DM on matrix with R and was further questioned about my interest in this topic. I left to ponder. Upon reflecting further, I decided I don't owe any of them an answer and left the matrix space for good (general, support, and discourse chats). Later that day, my Aethy account was suspended and my baraag account was defederated from Aethy. In retrospect, the discourse chat was a source of stress for me, either from being worried about people talking behind my back or rubbernecking at drama that didn't involve me. The chat seemed poorly moderated at best. I do not know why users were directed to the discourse chat to talk about site policy. I think it would be more productive to have a dedicated channel for site policy. That's about the end of my direct involvement. From now I only know what my friends tell me, as they either try to defend me and get banned, or express discontent with the new rules and get banned. I think this whole thing could have been avoided had the Admin simply said “I don't want to moderate this content on my platform” and left it at that. Instead they had to make it a moral stance where they and/or their friends stalk people offsite, block evade, and ban people for offsite activity. No website can be a safe space, stop trying to make it that or you'll ruin everything you have. I don't have the full story, of course, but keep in mind that no one does. Stay safe out there everybody <3 Update. Things continue to escalate outside my sphere and influence. My friends are losing friends because they refuse to cut me off. We are being stalked and block evaded by people in support of the Admin. This has become a full on harassment campaign in my opinion. By speaking I will likely bring more wrath down upon me, but I have decided to share my truth regardless. I would ask you to think about the point of this. Even if we are all as bad as you may have heard, what good comes at striking out at us? Who are you helping? Please think about this. There will always be bad people in the world, and it is not your job to police and punish them. As in all things, I implore everyone to get all sides of the story. If someone wants you to believe them 100% and not listen to the other side, think about why that may be. Once again, stay safe. I love you. Updates to come about me being banned from dreamwidth and squidge images Email: Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2
I was being told repeatedly by R and H that they were “concerned” for me. I asked what the nature of this concern was. H told me in a roundabout way that they were concerned I would come to physical harm. I had to ask if they meant self-harm/suicide. They confirmed. They told me it was my fault my friends were scared and that was the reason they reached out. They implored me to talk to (both of) my friends because they were scared of losing me. Reader, I do not know H beyond several passing convos about our characters. I became upset at the implication that my friends would reach out to a perfect stranger rather than talk to me and ended the conversation. I showed this conversation to my friends, and my other friend was shocked because he has never spoken to them.
September 27: leaving the Aethy Matrix chat
September 29: writing of this post
September 30: closing thoughts (?)
October 3: Banned from DreamWidth
October 3?: Banned from Squidge
